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Beyond Good and Evil

From Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil. Part two section 29: Independence is for the very few; it is a privilege of the strong And whoever attempts it even with the best right but without inner constraint proves that he is probably not only strong, but also daring to the point of recklessness. He enters into a labyrinth, he multiplies a thousandfold the dangers which life brings with it in any case, not the least of which is that no one can see how and where he loses his way, becomes lonely, and is torn piecemeal by some minotaur of conscience. Supposing one like that comes to grief, this happens so far from the comprehension of men that they neither feel it nor sympathize. And he cannot go back any longer. Nor can he go back to the pity of men.---

5 comments:

Asylum Dolly said...

Having an independant mind seems only to draw criticism from the sheepies,(who unfortunately rule the world) and feelings of alienation and isolation begin. I am ashamed to say that i wish sometimes to be a brainless little robot, as they seem to earm more respect and admiration in this place. Nobody gives a fuck about a woman with a mind, unless said mind is contained within an aesthetically pleasing vessel.And even then that physical vessel would draw more praise than what is within. Not that i am likely to ever recieve acclaim for either of those departments, but it does seem that independant thinking is less valued by the masses than "yes sir, no sir," mentality.

I don't know why i should write this. The title just jumped out of me from the sidebar, so i had to write something (even if it makes no sense) to somehow honour my subconscious. (i'm trying to get back in touch with my intuition). Anyway, as i said, the title was screaming at me, and when i read the contents it made sense, as i have been pondering such things lately.


Anyway,blah blah fucking blah. i have no point, so apologies for this entire comment.

John Dantzer said...

Thanks for your comment.

When Nietsche talks about independence I imagine he’s talking about what the spirit wants, or about following your intuition. The spirit wants the best life, since we only live once. Abundance of any one negative feeling or emotion, caused by fearful or malicious decisions, will cause your body harm, since it is not doing what’s best because it can no longer hear the spirit. We want healthy bodies, which come from a free spirit. Independence is choosing based on power, courage and love.

When I first read Nietsche's quote it inspired me to do things differently, and prepared me for the challenges that come with it. Either Nietzsche forgot to mention the rewards of such a life style, or Independence is the reward: not relying on anyone, and not having to measure up against others.

Independence sounds solitary, but reading your comment made me think of a decision based on independence. If someone like me had a choice between a smart-ugly girl, or a dumb-pretty one, would choosing the dumb-pretty be independent? If he was basing his choice on his image, and what others might think of him, and the negative thoughts arising from that; and if he didn't even like the girl he was choosing, but only chose her to look good, or to fit into society's definition of success; and if he liked someone else whose beauty was not as great, but who's personality and intelligence far surpassed that of the dumb-pretty, then he would be a sheep, and his action would not lead to independence. If he wasn't delusional, his conscience would tear him to shreds, and if he was, then his sub-conscious would. Nietzsche speaks of the conscious tearing apart an independent man, but in the case of the sheep, the conscious would be righteous, whereas, the independent man’s conscious would be from the sheep.
Similarly, if his friends and family were all intellectuals, and those who influenced him prized intelligence over beauty, choosing the smart-ugly would not be independent.

If his decision is based on love, however, then that would be an independent decision.
Every heterosexual guy loves a beautiful lady, fortunately everyone has a different conception of beauty. That conception, however, is often clouded by the man's own inadequacies. Either consciously or sub-consciously he knows he can't get the woman he loves, because there is too much competition and too much hurt, so he settles for less and tells himself his conception of beauty is different from the other guys. Although his decision is based on intelligence, it is not based on independence since he is choosing less than the best.

You probably didn’t expect such a rant from me, but I have been faced with such a decision and your comment prompted me to write this down. I would also like to choose a life of independence, or what the spirit wants, so it’s good to think about choosing the best.

Often times you cannot have the best, so then solitary independence must be practiced. Will you choose some dude just to avoid being lonely? This is probably the independence Nietzsche was talking about, since he was crazy with the loneliness, which may have inspired his genius.

Again, thanks for your comment. I hope you don’t think you are ugly or dumb. You are smart and beautiful. Your mind is like a diamond and you know what’s best. You’re touring the facility and picking up slack. I wouldn’t be surprised if you drove a white Chrysler Lebaron.

Asylum Dolly said...

Your rant is a good one, and expresses the ideas i was thinking about far better than mine, as words are not my strong point.
Maybe loneliness is the ultimate muse? Most of those i look up to and admire are solitary beings.Maybe that is the price they have to pay for their mental and spiritual freedom.
I am no genius, but i like to think i have an independant mind, and it does get lonely, despite my love of solitude.

The whole love thing has been playing on my mind. There is no way that i will ever be with someone just out of fear that i might grow old alone, but i would be lying if i said the fear wasn't there.I don't have the energy- emotional or otherwise- to go searching for a partner, and i am not going to fool myself that my ideal match is out there searching for me, so i have been preparing myself to accept the likelihood of continuing solitude, so all this solitary independant stuff has been on my mind. I need to find my talents and do something constructive with them so all this solitude is worth it, y'know? Unfortunately i do feel ugly and dumb a lot of the time, probably because i have failed in the things i was supposed to succeed in, like music and art. So now i feel like a bit of a nothing, with little to offer from within or externally.Like i don't really fit into the amazing world of the awesome free thinking talented freaks, nor the robotic plastic eyecandy world.
I have never felt beautiful or smart, but it's lovely of you to say so,thankyou.It's not something i can see, nor something i EVER hear in my day to day life. Sincerely,thanks. It's like getting a hug from a friend. I appreciate it, even if i don't quite feel deserving.
I like the sound of the white Chrysler lebaron. It's an amusing thought :D Thanks for the chuckle.
Thanks for the conversation too. It helps, even if it is a typed conversation between 2 people on opposite sides of the world.

x

John Dantzer said...

I have also failed at a lot of things, and feel ugly and dumb. You'd think I'd have gotten over the ugly part, but no, every look in the mirror is a reminder of that failure. And am I a brain surgeon? No. Am I addicted to meth? No. See, that is called changing your outlook. Not a brain surgeon, but also not a meth addict. Failure: gone. I can't play guitar either, and becoming a professional musician is not easy. You have talents which make you smart no matter what. All the time. Unless you become a meth addict, but even then all you need to do is lower the bar a bit. Murderer? This may not be helpful, because everyone wants to be successful and lowering standards isn't exactly noble, but there are way worse things for you, right? Be your own success, win a monopoly.

Asylum Dolly said...

We both need to stop feeling ugly and dumb. Easier said than done, but for what it's worth, i think you are very intelligent; your writing alone proves that.Dumb people bore the living crap out of me, so i certainly wouldn't be wasting my time reading your stories or admiring your artwork if you were dumb. As for looks, when you first sent me that weird eggshell photo of yourself for me to draw, i thought you looked quite adorable.Hopefully that is not creepy. Women probably think a bit differently to men when it comes to physical attraction...of course there are plenty of shallow bitches around, but most women i know , myself included, find that a mans character and talents can make him very attractive. Plus you are not ugly.I've only seen a few photos of you, but you have a cheeky smile and awesome curls, and many a lady is a sucker for that stuff. If you lived closer to me and hung out with me as a friend i would probably feel uncomfortable being so frank, but the internet offers a certain protection from uncomfortable situations,so i thought you should know, for what it's worth.Feeling ugly sux balls, so it makes me sad when other people feel like that.
Hopefully someday we will both feel more confident within ourselves. It is not easy, but at least we are willing to try.Maybe some day we will feel like hotties! Heres hoping anyway :)
Sorry if i have rambled on. It's what i do.